Rogue - Revision history

Admin: /* Combat Comparison */

2026-08-19T13:01:35Z

Combat Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:01, 19 August 2026
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	!Restrictions		!Restrictions
	\|-		\|-
	\|Thief \|\|Circle\|\|Physical\|\|Magic/Non based on weapon\|\|Scales with DR (uncapped)\|\|Must have priority in fight - won't work on aggro mobs or after rescue.		\|[[Thief]] \|\|Circle\|\|Physical\|\|Magic/Non based on weapon\|\|Scales with DR (uncapped)\|\|Must have priority in fight - won't work on aggro mobs or after rescue.
	\|-		\|-
	\|Fathomer\|\|Vindur Gong\|\|Magical\|\|Energy\|\|Dex+Luck & Mvs (capped)\|\|Cannot cast in Swamp or Underwater rooms.		\|[[Fathomer]]\|\|Vindur Gong\|\|Magical\|\|Energy\|\|Dex+Luck & Mvs (capped)\|\|Cannot cast in Swamp or Underwater rooms.
	\|}		\|}
	*Note that Circle is NOT 'piercing' damage!		*Note that Circle is NOT 'piercing' damage!

Admin: /* Combat Comparison */

2026-08-19T13:01:19Z

Combat Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:01, 19 August 2026
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	\|Fathomer\|\|Vindur Gong\|\|Magical\|\|Energy\|\|Dex+Luck & Mvs (capped)\|\|Cannot cast in Swamp or Underwater rooms.		\|Fathomer\|\|Vindur Gong\|\|Magical\|\|Energy\|\|Dex+Luck & Mvs (capped)\|\|Cannot cast in Swamp or Underwater rooms.
	\|}		\|}

	*Note that Circle is NOT 'piercing' damage!		*Note that Circle is NOT 'piercing' damage!


	~~Weapons and shared combat skills comparison:~~
	{\| class="wikitable sortable"		{\| class="wikitable sortable"
	\|+ Shared Skills:		\|+ Shared Skills:
Line 53:		Line 51:
	!Tumble		!Tumble
	!Grip		!Grip

	\|-		\|-
	\|[[Thief]]\|\|Short-Blades, Flexible Arms\|\|90%\|\|70%\|\|30%\|\|70%\|\|90%\|\|95%\|\|95%\|\|35%		\|[[Thief]]\|\|Short-Blades, Flexible Arms\|\|90%\|\|70%\|\|30%\|\|70%\|\|90%\|\|95%\|\|95%\|\|35%

Admin: /* Combat Comparison */

2026-08-19T13:00:45Z

Combat Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 19 August 2026
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	!Class		!Class
	!Attack		!Attack
			!Type
			!Damage
	!Mechanics		!Mechanics
	!Restrictions		!Restrictions
	\|-		\|-
	\|Thief \|\|Circle\|\|Scales with DR (uncapped)\|\|Must have priority in fight - won't work on aggro mobs or after rescue.		\|Thief \|\|Circle\|\|Physical\|\|Magic/Non based on weapon\|\|Scales with DR (uncapped)\|\|Must have priority in fight - won't work on aggro mobs or after rescue.
	\|-		\|-
	\|Fathomer\|\|Vindur Gong\|\|Dex+Luck & Mvs (capped)\|\|Cannot cast in Swamp or Underwater rooms.		\|Fathomer\|\|Vindur Gong\|\|Magical\|\|Energy\|\|Dex+Luck & Mvs (capped)\|\|Cannot cast in Swamp or Underwater rooms.
	\|}		\|}

			*Note that Circle is NOT 'piercing' damage!

Admin at 12:58, 19 August 2026

2026-08-19T12:58:19Z

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 =Combat Comparison=
 Weapons and shared combat skills comparison:
 {| class="wikitable sortable"

Admin: /* Utility Comparison */

2026-08-19T12:51:25Z

Utility Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:51, 19 August 2026
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	*For this genre I'm going to list both skills & spells, to highlight the thief utility skills against the small Fathomer spell list that is mostly 'utility' spell based.		*For this genre I'm going to list both skills & spells, to highlight the thief utility skills against the small Fathomer spell list that is mostly 'utility' spell based.

	For common skills ~~2 or more of the~~ classes get, I have tried to make that visually obvious toward the top. (Fathomer equivalent skills with thematic names are in parenthesis)		For common skills that both classes get, I have tried to make that visually obvious toward the top. (Fathomer equivalent skills with thematic names are in parenthesis)

	After those equivalences, the differences become more visible.		After those equivalences, the differences become more visible.
Line 104:		Line 104:
	\|Estimate \|\| Glass Eye		\|Estimate \|\| Glass Eye
	\|}		\|}











	=Which Class to Use?=		=Which Class to Use?=

Admin: /* Stat Comparison */

2026-08-19T12:50:29Z

Stat Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:50, 19 August 2026
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	!Lck		!Lck
	\|-		\|-
	\|Thief\|\|20\|\|20\|\|18\|\|25\|\|20\|\|22\|\|18		\|Thief\|\|20\|\|20\|\|18\|\|25\|\|20\|\|22\|\|20
	\|-		\|-
	\|Fathomer\|\|20\|\|22\|\|20\|\|25\|\|18\|\|20\|\|20		\|Fathomer\|\|20\|\|22\|\|20\|\|25\|\|18\|\|20\|\|20
	\|}		\|}


	=Combat Comparison=		=Combat Comparison=

Admin at 12:49, 19 August 2026

2026-08-19T12:49:41Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:49, 19 August 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
	=~~Fighter~~ Classes=		=Rogue Classes=
	*[[Thief]]		*[[Thief]]
	*[[Fathomer]]		*[[Fathomer]]
Line 6:		Line 6:

	{\| class="wikitable sortable"		{\| class="wikitable sortable"
	\|+ Max ~~Fighter~~ Stats		\|+ Max Rogue Stats
	!CLASS		!CLASS
	!Str		!Str
Line 65:		Line 65:
	For common skills 2 or more of the classes get, I have tried to make that visually obvious toward the top. (Fathomer equivalent skills with thematic names are in parenthesis)		For common skills 2 or more of the classes get, I have tried to make that visually obvious toward the top. (Fathomer equivalent skills with thematic names are in parenthesis)

	After those ~~equivalances~~, the differences become more visible.		After those equivalences, the differences become more visible.

Admin: /* Which Class to Use? */

2026-07-06T21:19:56Z

Which Class to Use?

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:19, 7 July 2026
Line 119:		Line 119:


	*'''~~Stat~~ Differences:'''		*'''Hard Differences:'''
			**Thieves stats obviously don't suffer the painful 18 Con.
			**Thieves are better suited for melee combat:
			***Better 3rd & 4th attack proficiency.
			***Better Disarm, and get Tumble & Grip.
			**Thieves combat styles lead defensive/evasive, fathomers prefer evasive/standard.

			What does all of this mean? Not a whole fucking lot. I guess if it's a high melee based fight, lots of melee rounds landing and being landed, then a Thief would fair better in that situation.

			*'''Ability Differences:'''
			**Both get all the same 'rogue stuff' to pick, steal, track, scry, search, hide/sneak, etc.
			**Thieves go on to get things like peek/detrap/aid/poison-weapon, whereas fathomers get more useful spells like create spring, salinate, submerge, glass eye, etc.


			If you're considering a rogue for a fight, I guess the determining factors would be:
			*Can you hit the mob with a sword, or spell damage, or both. A thieves circle will out-pace vindur gong, so if you can thief, then thief.
			*Do you need to use any specific abilities, like detrap/falcon sight, or salinate/glass eye. This may determine which you pick.

	*'''Dyr's Hot Take:'''		*'''Dyr's Hot Take:'''

			Fathomer's, to me, seem like a class that was jammed in cuz it is thematically fun, and not much more. It's nice being able to do the 'rogue stuff' on a Fathomer and also having create spring and true-sight spells, but the decreased damage of vindur gong (capped), and 18 max Con and lack of Tumble also make them generally flimsier than a thief in my experience. The fact they can wield long-blades, and fight better in standard, and have those useful spells makes up for it I guess - they're a bit more of a Swiss army knife, and the trade-off for that is giving up the shear damage output of the thief. So do you want straight damage, or some capabilities, that's how I see the difference between Thieves and Fathomers.

			Also note now that you can multi-class prestige a Thief into a Thi-Dru (or Mag/Cle) that's basically going to give your Thief most of the magic shit Fathomers get anyhow, so, makes the Fathomer even less unique as its own class.

			This all sounds like I'm shitting on Fathomer's, and I guess I am, but maybe I'm just shitting on Rogues in general. I would rather use a Vampire/Dread if I want to use a 25 dexterity character that's good at melee fighting with high damage output. I do use my Fathomer (Bucc) for questing, and take him to runs sometimes when my other (better) chars are tied up somewhere, and he fares just fine. I could also just bring my Thief, but they're even more boring that Fathomers and I'm sick of them too, boring ass circle attack and nothing else to do! At least Fathomer's get SOME additional shit to play with.

			Both are fine classes. I'm not sure you honestly 'neeeeed' a good one though. I often just use them to pick locks and nothing else. Make a shitty one for that, dress it half-assed, and play with it, maybe you'll like it and if not you at least have a lock picker.

Admin: /* Combat Comparison */

2026-07-06T20:57:38Z

Combat Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:57, 7 July 2026
Line 38:		Line 38:

	\|-		\|-
	\|[[Thief]]\|\|Short-Blades, Flexible Arms\|\|90%\|\|70%\|\|30%\|\|70%\|\|95%\|\|90%\|\|95%\|\|35%		\|[[Thief]]\|\|Short-Blades, Flexible Arms\|\|90%\|\|70%\|\|30%\|\|70%\|\|90%\|\|95%\|\|95%\|\|35%
	\|-		\|-
	\|[[Fathomer]]\|\|Short-Blades, Long-Blades\|\|95%\|\|65%\|\|20%\|\|75%\|\|95%\|\|75%\|\|-\|\|-		\|[[Fathomer]]\|\|Short-Blades, Long-Blades\|\|95%\|\|65%\|\|20%\|\|70%\|\|75%\|\|95%\|\|-\|\|-
	\|}		\|}

Admin: /* Combat Comparison */

2026-07-06T20:56:15Z

Combat Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:56, 7 July 2026
Line 32:		Line 32:
	!4th Atk		!4th Atk
	!Enhance Dmg		!Enhance Dmg
			!Disarm
	!Dodge		!Dodge
	!Tumble		!Tumble
	!Grip		!Grip
	~~!Disarm~~
	\|-		\|-
	\|[[Thief]]\|\|Short-Blades, Flexible Arms\|\|90%\|\|70%\|\|30%\|\|70%\|\|95%\|\|95%\|\|35%\|\|90%		\|[[Thief]]\|\|Short-Blades, Flexible Arms\|\|90%\|\|70%\|\|30%\|\|70%\|\|95%\|\|90%\|\|95%\|\|35%
	\|-		\|-
	\|[[Fathomer]]\|\|Short-Blades, Long-Blades\|\|95%\|\|65%\|\|20%\|\|75%\|\|95%\|\|-\|\|-\|\|~~75%~~		\|[[Fathomer]]\|\|Short-Blades, Long-Blades\|\|95%\|\|65%\|\|20%\|\|75%\|\|95%\|\|75%\|\|-\|\|-
	\|}		\|}