Prestige Info

The prestige option allows you to relevel your character and acquire some gains based on your class (or multiclass).

Prestige Types

There are two types of prestige characters. Some classes can multi-class with another, some can only upgrade at their existing class.

• These "classic" classes can become multi-class (i.e. Cleric-Druid, or Mage-Thief, etc)
  • Your original class will be your "primary class" while your added class we will call your "secondary class".
    • Cleric
    • Druid
    • Mage
    • Thief
    • Warrior

• These classes just become upgraded with greater powers in their own class. (they cannot multi-class).
  • Augurer --> Harbinger
  • Fathomer --> Buccaneer
  • Nephandi --> Infernalist
  • Paladin --> Knight
  • Ranger --> Hunter
  • Vampire --> Dread Vampire

• For the multi-class type, race restrictions still apply. Meaning if your race cannot be a Thief, then you cannot multi as a X-Thief.
  • For example, a Half-Ogre Thief cannot become a Thi-Mag/Dru/Cle because Half-Ogres simply cannot be those classes. He could only become Thi-War

Here's a table of which races can be which classes.

Possible race/class combinations:

	Dragonborn	Drow	Dwarf	Elf	Gith	Gnome	Half-Elf	Half-Ogre	Half-Orc	Half-Troll	Halfling	Human	Lizardman	Pixie	Sea-elf	Tiefling
Cleric		X	X	X	X	X	X					X	?	X	X
Druid			X	X		X	X					X	?	X	X	X
Mage	X	X		X	X	X	X					X	?	X	X	X
Thief		X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	?	X	X	X
Warrior	X	X	X	X	X		X	X	X	X	X	X	?		X	X

Equipment

• For multi-class prestige:
  • The primary class determines what equipment you can wear. If you're a Thi-Mag, you have to wear Thief/Rogue compatible eq. Not Mage stuff.

Items made specifically for prestige chars of various classes/multi-classes will be introduced to the game at "some point".

(There's a few items I know about currently, so there are probably more out there already)

Look for this to be fully implemented soon, circa 2065!

Bonuses

Prestige characters get several bonuses, including a max stat increase, hp/mana/moves increases, and skills/spells increases.

Stat Bonus

• For single-class prestige characters, you get a +1 to the maximum value of your prime stat, so it can now reach 26:

Dread Vampire: 26 Dex
Buccaneer:     26 Dex
Knight:        26 Str
Hunter:        26 Str
Harbinger:     26 Lck
Infernalist:   26 Int

• For multi-class prestige characters, you get a +1 to the max of the prime stat of the secondary class.
  • For example, a Thi-War: Str is the Warrior's prime stat. So Thi-War can have 21 Str.
  • For example, a Mag-Thi: Dex is the Thief's prime stat. So Mag-Thi can have 21 Dex.

Secondary Class   Increased max stat on the prestige character:
          Thief:  Dex
        Warrior:  Str
           Mage:  Int
         Cleric:  Wis
          Druid:  Wis

Higher stats do have concrete advantages, though not all of these are obvious to detect. Two that are, and two that WERE:

• 26 Dex = Impossible to fumble potions.
• +1 Str = Additional 100 lbs carry capacity (max 1100 at 26 Str).
• 26 Int = Grasp was Int based, and was brutal at 26 int. Got nerfed. (news 1149)
• 26 Wis = Dorn was Wis based, and this was fucking ammazzzzing. Got nerfed. (news 1171)

Here's a full table of the possible max stats, with the bonus stat from the secondary class in bold, and noted. Note that some influence the primary class's prime/secondary/deficient stats, which can be interesting to think about.

Max Stats per Multi-Class

CLASS	Str	Int	Wis	Dex	Con	Cha	Lck	Notes
Thi-War	21	20	18	25	20	22	20	+1 Str
Thi-Dru	20	20	19	25	20	22	20	+1 Wis (Thieves deficient stat)
Thi-Cle	20	20	19	25	20	22	20	+1 Wis (Thieves deficient stat)
Thi-Mag	20	21	18	25	20	22	20	+1 Int
War-Thi	25	18	20	23	20	20	20	+1 Dex (Warriors secondary stat)
War-Mag	25	19	20	22	20	20	20	+1 Int (Warriors deficient stat)
War-Cle	25	18	21	22	20	20	20	+1 Wis
War-Dru	25	18	21	22	20	20	20	+1 Wis
Mag-Thi	18	25	22	21	20	20	20	+1 Dex
Mag-War	19	25	22	20	20	20	20	+1 Str (Mages deficient stat)
Mag-Cle	18	25	23	20	20	20	20	+1 Wis (Mages secondary stat)
Mag-Dru	18	25	23	20	20	20	20	+1 Wis (Mages secondary stat)
Cle-War	21	22	25	18	20	20	20	+1 Str
Cle-Thi	20	22	25	19	20	20	20	+1 Dex (Clerics deficient stat)
Cle-Mag	20	23	25	18	20	20	20	+1 Int (Clerics secondary stat)
Cle-Dru	20	22	26	18	20	20	20	+1 Wis (Clerics primary stat)
Dru-Cle	20	20	26	20	22	18	20	+1 Wis (Druids primary stat)
Dru-Mag	20	21	25	20	22	18	20	+1 Int
Dru-War	21	20	25	20	22	18	20	+1 Str
Dru-Thi	20	20	25	21	22	18	20	+1 Dex

The Dru-Cle or Cle-Dru combination is the ONLY one that causes the prime stat to go up to 26.

HP Bonus

Upon having an Immortal prestige you, you will be back at level 1. They will auto-level you to 5.

• Prestige characters have their starting hp at level 1 doubled compared to normal new chars of that race/class.
  • The equation is: 20 +/- {modifiers} x 2 for starting hp at level 1.
• You will then receive 4 automatic levels with all of your stats being maxed by the immortal's prestige command.

This leaves you at Level 5 with a higher base than a standard level 5 character.

(No bonuses to starting mana or movement outside of racial modifiers.)

HP Gains per Level

Gains for multi-class characters are based on primary class, not affected by secondary.

While prestige leveling, your class's min hp gain is +1 from usual, and your max hp gain is +2 from usual.

For example, if a given class has a standard min hp gain of 13 and max of 18 each level, prestige leveling that class would see hp gains between 14 and 20.

HP/Mana Gains by Class

Class	Regular						Prestige
	HP min	HP max	rng	Mana min	Mana max	rng	HP min	HP max	rng	Mana min	Mana max	rng
Augurer	13	18	5	2	7	5	14	20	6	3	9	6
Druid	14	19	5	2	8	6	15	21	6	3	10	7
Fathomer	11	17	6	2	8	6	12	19	7	3	10	7
Mage	9	12	3	2	9	7	10	14	4	3	11	8
Nephandi	11	13	2	2	8	6	12	15	3	3	10	7
Paladin	15	19	4	2	7	5	16	21	5	3	9	6
Ranger	15	19	4	2	7	5	16	21	5	3	9	6
Thief	12	17	5	n/a			13	19	6	n/a
Vampire	13	18	5	n/a			14	20	6	n/a
Warrior	15	19	4	n/a			16	21	5	n/a

Total HP Gains

My rule of thumb is that you basically get between 4-6 "Free" additional levels worth of hp gains. I usually hit my "old base" around level 44/45. So, whatever I gain after that between 45-50 is additional prestige bonus hp. If you use a generic average hp gain of 15, that's 75 hp. It can of course be significantly more/less depending on race/class and dumb luck.

Here is a list of some actual data points. I apologize for the lack of pre-prestige values in some cases.

Classic Vs Prestige HP Bases at AV

CLASS	Race	Original HP	Prestige HP	Average Gain per Level	Total HP Gain
Bucc	Human	687	802	15.55	115hp
Cle-Dru	Human	630	714	13.91	84hp
Cle-Dru	Human	617	706	13.59	89hp
Dread	Gith	765	858	16.53	93hp
Dread	Gith	?	868	--
Dread	Gith	?	848	--
Dru-Cle	Sea-Elf	837	892	17.46	55hp
Dru-Cle	Sea-Elf	?	909	--
Harb	Tiefling	772	855	16.63	83hp
Harb	Dwarf	?	850	--
Harb	?	751	818	16	67hp
Hunter	Lizardman	852	915	17.77	63hp
Hunter	Pixie	?	937	--
Hunter	Dwarf	?	939	--
Infern	Dragonborn	611	686	12.93	75hp
Knight	Elf	875	955	18.75	80hp
Knight	Dwarf	?	963	--
Knight	Dwarf	?	962	--
Mag-Thi	Elf	559	626	12.04	67hp
Mag-Dru	Pixie	?	631	--
Thi-War	H-Ogre	?	802	--
War-Cle	Drow	845	919	17.89	74hp

Mana/Moves Bonus

You do gain additional mana/moves similar to hp. Same story basically.

Here's some gains on mana I have data points on:

Buccaneer:   +94  mn
Infernalist: +67  mn
Knight:      +50  mn
Harbinger:   +50  mn
Hunter:      +111 mn (had a super poor base mana as a regular Ranger)
Cle-Dru:     +81  mn
Dru-Cle:     +62  mn
Mag-Thi:     +59  mn
War-Cle:     +196 mn (Got 100 "base" mana at prestige time, ended up at 196 total at AV.)

Skill/Spell Bonus

Single-class bonuses

While leveling all skills/spells are auto-adepted to full each level. You do NOT have to "re-learn" things.

• Harbinger:
  • Faster Spiral: Can spiral 17 times between coils, compared to a regular Augurer's 13 spirals
  • Spiral costs 11 mana instead of 15

• Buccaneer:
  • Impossible to fumble potions while at 26* dex.
  • Vindur gong is faster and cheaper (takes 9/13th of regular time, so ~31% faster for ~44% more damage per second, costs 22 mana instead of 35)
  • Most spells appear to cost 25% less mana, and rounded down: vindur gong (26 mana vs 35), iceshield (63 mana vs 85), isfundere (22 vs 30), rummage (3 vs 5).
  • New Skills:
    • Retreat: Flee to the last room you were in (directional flee).
    • Terrorize: Force mob to flee if significantly lesser level/experience.
    • Tactics of the Sea: A short lived (15 rds) resistance/saves buff:

            [tactics of ;+030 R: ACID;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;+020 R:MAGIC;   13 rds]
            [tactics of ;+025 R:DRAIN;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;+020 R:UNHLY;   13 rds]
            [tactics of ;+015 R: HOLY;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;+025 R:BLUNT;   13 rds]
            [tactics of ;+020 R: PRCE;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;+025 R:SLASH;   13 rds]
            [tactics of ;+010 R:ENRGY;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;+010 R: ELEC;   13 rds]
            [tactics of ;+030 R: COLD;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;+030 R: FIRE;   13 rds]
            [tactics of ;+030 R:NOMGC;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;-004 SV ROD;    13 rds]
            [tactics of ;-004 SV SPLL;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;-006 SV BRTH;   13 rds]
            [tactics of ;-007 SV PARA;   13 rds]    [tactics of ;-006 SV POI;    13 rds]
            [tactics of ;-004 SV ROD;    13 rds]

• Infernalist:
  • New Skills:
    • Void Infusion: Stat buffs. The lower your stats when you cast it, the greater the buffs.
    • Shared Agony: Resist a % of incoming damage and return it to mob as attack damage.
    • Enslaved Summoning: Summon berserk-style gremlin to fight with you.

• Knight:
  • Max carry weight 1100 while at 26 str.
  • Slightly faster shieldbash.

• Hunter:
  • Max carry weight 1100 while at 26 str.
  • Faster, cheaper, Gash
  • Stronger Gash while at 26 str.
  • Can fletch arrows faster
  • New Skills:
    • Cascade: melee rounds hit EVERY mob in the fight. Nice for whacking lots of small stuff that gangs up on you.
    • Indomitable: immune to stun/bash
    • Pursue: Similar to hunt, auto-track-move-track-move... to mob.

• Dread Vampire:
  • Impossible to fumble potions while at 26 dex.
  • Grasp does more damage (it had to be nerfed, but its still increased. See: news 1149)
  • Mistwalk works during daytime and night.
  • No blood loss during the day.
  • Stronger potence (Max +6 dr, based on hp).
  • Blood cost reduction for all spells to 1 bp.
  • Feed restores ALL blood points every time.

Multi-class bonuses

For multi-class prestige, the bonuses are simply that you can learn skills/spells from your secondary class.

• Skills/Spells from the primary class are auto-adepted each level to full. You do NOT need to "re-learn" those.
• Skills/Spells from the secondary class must be adepted as per usual (and take longer than usual)

• There is a list of multi-class accessible skills/spells in 'help prestige4'.
  • If the secondary class would typically learn one of those, you will learn it on your prestige multi-class.
    • For example, if you're a Warrior, and you multi with a Cleric, Clerics learn 'sanctuary', and its on the list, so you can learn sanctuary.

• Multi Skills/Spells learned thanks you to secondary class have a max adept percentage at 80% of the secondary class's native adept percentage.
  • For example, a War-Cleric will get sanctuary. Cleric's learn sanc to 95%. War-Cle will learn it to (95 x .80) = 76%
• If BOTH classes have a skill or spell, whichever class has the higher percentage 'wins', and that value is the new limit for that skill or spell.
  • For example, Clerics usually adept rescue to 20%, while Druids adept rescue at 95%. A Cleric-Druid's rescue will adept to 95%.

• Mage path spells, and Cleric pantheon spells, are not included for prestigers.
  • Cleric align-based spells DO still apply. You learn both heal & necromantic touch, but your ability to cast each is based on your align dev/evil.

• Mage-X prestige's get a special perk of increased self-buff spells. They're +6 instead of the usual +3.

Here's a table showing what you learn from multi'ing with each Class, and to what percentage adeptness that class adepts that.

(Remember you will only get 80% of the listed adeptness, unless you also share that skill, in which case you just get whichever is the higher value)

Multi-Class Skills & Adeptness

X-Cleric			X-Thief			X-Warrior			X-Mage			X-Druid
aid	95		aid	70		aid	80		berserk style	45		aid	95
armor	95		backstab	95		berserk style	95		black fist	95		berserk style	45
berserk style	20		berserk style	45		blitz	80		caustic fount	95		create food	95
bless	95		circle	95		disarm	85		continual light	95		create spring	95
continual light	95		disarm	90		dodge	70		create spring	95		disarm	95
create food	95		dodge	95		doorbash	85		fireshield	95		dodge	95
create spring	95		dual wield	85		dual wield	85		float	95		dorn nadur	90
dodge	50		gouge	95		grip	90		fly	95		earthquake	95
fireshield	95		grip	35		kick	85		ice blast	95		fire breath	95
float	90		hide	85		lunge	90		invis	95		fireshield	95
fly	95		scan	90		parry	85		second attack	45		float	95
heal	95		second attack	90		punt	95		slink	95		fly	95
necromantic touch	95		sneak	95		rescue	80		third attack	30		forage	70
prayer	95		third attack	70		scan	60		track	85		hide	95
rescue	20		track	85		second attack	95					invis	95
second attack	50					shoulder	90					ioc dall	95
third attack	40					smash	95					ioc puinsean	95
true sight	95					stun	85					kick	95
word of recall	95					third attack	95					meditate	95
						track	85					nadur dion	95
												parry	95
												rescue	95
												scan	60
												second attack	95
												slainte	95
												sneak	95
												starlight	95
												third attack	90
												track	95
												word of recall	95

• Stupid Druid spell name translations:
  • Ioc dall = cure blindness
  • Ioc puinsean = cure poison
  • nadur dion = sanctuary
  • slainte = heal
  • starlight = continual light

Damage Comparisons

I have a lot of data on different attack values, however I don't have a lot of comparison between prestige vs. non-prestige unfortunately (it's basically all prestige data). The one comparison I have however is on Ranger/Hunter Gash, which displays the advantage of the increased relevant stat to the gash attack (Gash is based on Wis+Str. Hunters have 26 Str).

Class	Min	Max	Average	DPS	Damroll	Notes
Hunter	141	173	157	85	92	Max str/wis.
Ranger	84	101	92	50	93	Max str/wis.

In general, all attacks are simply better. If not, defenses are better, allowing for less healing and more frequent attacks.

In practice, 2 Dreads can kill things 2 Vamps struggle much more to kill, etc.

Attack/wait-time speeds are increased (at least for some classes) so even if the attack isn't necessarily stronger you are launching more of them more frequently. The Harbingers being able to launch 17 spirals before Coil of Flame expires compared to a regular Aug's 13 spirals is a nice gain. Plus, since Spiral damage is HP based, your increased prestige HP base will raise that level as well. More damage per hit and more hits overall: Double Whammy.

Leveling Tips

Leveling a prestige character fucking blows:

• MUST be ip-1 game-wide while leveling or drastically reduced xp.
• XP needed per level is jacked way way way up
• XP gain pet hit is jacked way way way down. About 1/7th the usual rate of xp gain per hit.
• Your kill buffer filling up with too many kills of a mob will drop xp down 0, entirely 0 xp per hit or kill.

Advice:

• Get a fucking life and quit this bullshit game.
• Be ip1. Clear buffer every level to start, then twice per level, and by the end after every 'round' of mobs you go and kill.
  • I may be paranoid, but I clear it with 25 UNIQUE mobs.
• Melee damage gains far more xp than the other attacks/spells. Just sit there, do nothing, and heal as needed.
  • Max your HR as much as possible to land as many melee hits as possible.
  • Max your DR as much as possible to land as much damage per melee hit as possible.
  • This applies to non-prestige leveling too btw, but really needs to be followed for prestige leveling.
• Classes that get enhanced damage and 2nd/3rd/4th attack early on go much faster than those that do not.
• Finding all the lowbie quests that give xp rewards is helpful (Town Hall, etc)

Grind your face off.

So far for me Knight and Hunter were the fastest. Dread sucks at first but then speeds up. Thief-Warrior is by far the worst. Absolutely awful the entire time start to finish.

How to Prestige

If you have the required glory and gold, go to Queen Mordrineagh Ni Riain in the Castle of Rol Na Feinne.

Zmud/Tintin: #6 s;ne;s;s;se;e;e;s;sw;sw;s;#5 sw;nw;#5 n;ne;n;e;n;ne;n;n;say entry;n;u;u;open west;w
Mush:#6s (ne) 2s (se) 2e s 2(sw) s 5(sw) (nw) 5n (ne) n e n (ne) 2n (say entry) n 2u (open west) w

In her room, execute the command prestige. She will provide you a scrippe with your name and the word "prestige" embossed.

Note: She will not verify if your character is already prestiged. Reimbursements will not be made for opportunities purchased if you are already prestige or multi-class.

After you have obtained that scrippe, and once you are ready to pull the trigger remove all your gear and empty your inventory and it may be wise to eat and drink (and maybe rest for a tick) so that you are in perfect health before being auto-leveled to level 5, as mental state and hunger and god knows what else may impact the auto-leveled hp gains.

Finally, contact a level 60 imm and tell them you'd like to prestige your character.

Closing Thoughts & Opinions

Any prestige character is significantly "better" than the non-prestige version. In my experience, the little things do matter.

• Increasing stats by 1 does make a big difference. Having 26 of a stat makes whatever that is super good. 26 dex chars barely catch melee damage and don't drop potions, 26 wis/int chars seem to succeed is casting spells all the time. Whatever is going on in the game code I dunno, but the minor stat changes matter, as evidenced by:
  • 26 int vamps made grasp game breaking and had to be nerfed (news 1149)
  • 26 wis druids made dorn game breaking and had to be nerfed (news 1171)
  • 26 str hunters gash is much stronger (because gash is Wis+Str based)

So, all of the single-class prestige types are "just better" at being that class than the non-prestige version.

And, the multi-class prestige types can try interesting things to experiment with changing different stats based on who they cross-class with, raising their deficient stat, or secondary stat, or with clerics/druids essentially achieving the same stat bonus as the single-class prestige by raising prime stat to 26 and still also gaining cross-class skills. There's a lot of combo's out there, an each seems to have some nice perks.

• The multi-class skills list doesn't look that impressive, but again its the less-fancy skills that make a decent impact
  • Adding parry/dodge/etc skills to characters who don't typically have them makes a big difference:
    • A Mage moving to a Mag-War gaining parry and dodge drastically reduces melee damage taken.
  • Increasing 2nd/3rd/4th attack percentages is very helpful.
    • A Mage moving to a Mag-War increases 2nd and 3rd attack from 45% and 30% both to 95%. More than double your melee damage attempts.
  • Automatic skills are worthwhile and add up quickly, even if you don't get to 'play with them' yourself really.
    • A Thief moving to a Thi-War adds Parry, sees grip move from 30% to 90%, 2nd atk 90% -> 95%, 3rd atk 70% -> 95%.
  • Functional "utility" skills are nice and make gameplay easier, get you out of jams. Increase suriveability.
    • Gaining things like rescue, scan, track, and of course sanc/nadur dion, cure blind/poison, elemental shields, etc, are all fucking nice to have.

I'm betting there's a bunch of other ways prestige is game breaking that will eventually be nerfed too once people figure it out, because mostly none of this prestige stuff is super well beta tested. Edmond showed up one day and built it out in about 2 weeks then bailed. He had some people in various orders testing in on the build port for a week, some tweaks were made, then he shoved it onto the production server and let it fly. This is not some crack team of nerd game developers, its some dude who rushed this in, and his 3 buddies have to deal with the fallout now. Unsurprisingly, the grasp/dorn issues were huge and required adjustment, I'm certain there will be others.

---

Here's my own 2 cents on some of the different prestige options:

I haven't experimented with the multi-class prestige options much yet. But here's what I got so far:

• Thi-War: Functionally better, but not much "fun"
  • Definitely hardier than a regular thief, but, not many features to actually mess with. Gets Rescue, which is nice. And Doorbash. Shrug.

• Dru-Cle: A badass motherfucker who ain't takin shit from nobody
  • Definitely my favorite. The killer combo here is obtaining all the +dorn and lower dorn cost gear that's out there (Graaj/Tolsmir), and then tacking on the 26 wis from the prestige status. The stuff obtained from the cleric skills list isn't really big, druids already can do most of that stuff, but, that 26 wis and whatever other secret sauce prestige adds (speed?) makes him far better than my regular druids.

• Cle-Dru: Maybe my best tank?
  • I have this guy devoted to A'enari for the tanky/fighty cleric path skills, which makes a great combo with the prestige status. Guy is a brick shit house. The Druid stuff adds a huge quantity of useful spells to fix everything that's annoying about regular Clerics. He can fucking hide/sneak/scan/track, he can rescue at 95% instead of 20%, all his 2nd/3rd/4th atk percentages are way better. The combo of that stuff with the cleric devotion path spells like Greater Sanctuary (60% damage reduction), indurate, indignation, conviction, defense against undead, lightshield, divine power, and of course visage of the deity make this dude super solid. The Cleric devotion path stuff makes clerics decent tanks, but the Cle-Dru prestige stuff makes them vastly more functional and capable of a lot more gameplay. Easier to use, less restrictions, nice. I might do a Cle-War later to really focus on the tank element, that would be even better, though less good for walking around exploring and shit like that.

Here's some builds my friends have that I get the gist of:

• Cle-War: Probably the best route to take to build a cleric tank really. Get all the fighty stuff, parry, melee atk %'s, grip, etc.
• Mag-Cle: Sick of walking around 2 spell bots? Get by with 1. Mage buffs plus sanc, who's against that? Great for Immob mages.
• Thi-Dru: Adding magic to thieves is super useful: sanc, invis, cure blind/poison, create spring, PLUS parry and increased melee %'s.
• War-XXX: Warriors themselves fucking suck, so, prestige it with anything to maybe get more use out of it!

For the single-prestige classes, I have Dread, Knight, Hunter, will soon have my Fatty prestiged into a Bucc. Honestly not much to say about these other than "yea they're better". If you have one, why would you use the regular version? You wouldn't. So, I'm currently focusing on these because I kind of think that over time people may figure out new multi-class ideas for certain purposes/runs and I'll let that play out for awhile before committing to what I build there. But, these single-class guys aren't going anywhere, and really the end-game is now to have all these classes prestiged into their superman forms. So, mays well get that done first. They're all strong.

• Dread having 26 dex makes them almost unhittable for certain mobs. Grasp is fast and strong. Feed to full is money.
• Knight is huge and just laughs as things slam against him and bounce off.
• Hunter is wayyyy fucking nicer than Ranger and can actually kill things now, plus cascade is kickass for certain applications.
• Bucc I think will be fairly meh. They announced the Bucc skills when I was at like 250 glory, and personally I think those suck and are stupid, so I refused to spend the gold and have just been grinding him up to 1500 or 2k glory so I can prestige for free and have a huge glory chunk to do something cool with. So, I'll take the faster vindur gong and hp bonus and meh whatever, its still an upgrade, but I'm in this for the glory chunk at this point.